[pmwiki-users] 2.2 Series & Blog/comments

Ryan R. Varick rvarick at gmail.com
Fri Sep 22 11:33:45 CDT 2006

> Rather, I propose that blog recipe owners work together
> with Pm to unify the assorted recipes into a semi-official recipe.
> Thus, we have a unified blog approach _without_ freaping feeturism in
> the core. Other comments have resisted blogging. I resist both
> blogging and comments because I believe a better solution is to have a
> unified recipe for each, created as a collaboration of authors and Pm,
> rather than formal introduction to the core.

My opinion, as author of KoB, is to wait for the standard to emerge
(either Pm's solution, or BlogWithPagelist) and then write a script to
convert KoB entries to that format.  KoB was useful a year ago when
the core lacked pagelists and other niceities, but it's not really the
best way of doing things now.

> It has already been said that (blog != wiki). With the exception of a
> commenting scheme, most blog features are already possible via the
> core. What is a blog? It's a page with the authors thoughts, followed
> by a list of comments.

A blog is not a wiki only because no one has made it so yet.  While I
haven't followed the 2.1 and 2.2 series development that closely, I do
feel that most of the components are in place for blogging.

> There seems to be a trend to number the blog entries, but this is
> really an artifact of the fact that most blog software rely on RDBMSs.
> The other reason for numbering is as an easy way to order the entries
> (e.g. 123 comes before 124). The reaction to this is for blog software
> to have reader-friendly urls which map back to the entry. Sort of
> sounds like DNS resolution redux. The PmWiki blog experience suggests
> the need for page names based on date---probably to ease use in a blog
> calendar.

I agree that numbering is not necessarily the best solution.  KoB uses
dates because that was the only way I knew to manage entries, at the
time.  I still don't understand all this pagelist magic, but if it
allows blog owners to customize their page names, then I am all for

> Without confering with him, I infer that Pm is suggesting adding
> Blogging to the core because of the interest in the threads and lack
> of consensus/uniformity in the recipes. Perhaps the blog authors
> should get together and work with Pm to unify the approach so that
> PmWiki can offer one-solid blog approach, rather than several.

My position is that KoB was a stop-gap measure and I'm perfectly
willing to support something better when it comes around.
BlogWithPagelist is a good start, but I don't think the interface is
where it needs to be yet.

But here's what I think:

* Entry mode:  Blogs are generally written before they are linked.  I
think that the eventual blogging champion should probably support both
write-then-link (as in KoB) and link-then-write (as in wiki) modes.

* Format:  KoB uses a form with boxes for date and title, which are
stored apart from the text of the blog itself.  *Fmt variables are
used to control how those pieces of information are rendered, and how
an entry is constructed.  For example, the blog owner can customize
the appearance and location of the permalink, or omit it altogether.
I think this flexibility is important (see below) and would like to
see these aspects of an entry separated out.

* Views:  Blogs are viewed many different ways:  as individual
entries, as chronological lists (digest view in KoB), as an archive,
as an RSS feed, etc.  Part of supporting all this is making sure the
data is well-defined.  Titles, dates, permanent links... all these
need to be things authors can play with so they can choose how to
visualize their content.

* Toys:  RSS, comments, trackbacks, etc.  I don't really understand
all this stuff, but people seem to like it.  If there's a standard way
to denote these things, then I don't think it's a big deal.  I really
don't have much of an opinion here.


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