[pmwiki-users] Note on tooltip options

Thomas Lederer celok at gmx.net
Mon Mar 20 05:20:10 CST 2006

Joachim Durchholz schrieb am 20.03.2006 11:52 Uhr:
> Thomas Lederer schrieb:
>> Joachim Durchholz schrieb am 20.03.2006 9:33 Uhr:
>>> Neil Herber schrieb:
>>>> Other than the fact that it might break existing markup, I would say 
>>>> get rid of the [[ Link Text -> http://www.example.com ]] markup 
>>>> altogether.
>>> Sorry for jumpin in late, and I have to confess I haven't followed this 
>>> thread. Let me just cast my vote for the -> syntax: it's far more 
>>> intuitive than the | syntax.
>> Hello,
>> as we are casting votes ;) i would vote for the pipe: |
>> Reason: from my point of view it is the _more_ logical choice:
>> Standard link: [[http:\\example.com]]
>> Link with Title (advanced link): [[http::\\example.com | example title]]
> Um... *how* is that more logical?

Um... from my point of view ;)

[[linkurl | linktext]]
[[linktext -> linkurl]]

A link without a linkurl is a text.
A link without a linktext is still a link.

So i judge (only i maybe) the linkurl part as more important, therefore
i go for it first. The linktext is optional. I know that you can link to
WikiPages without an _URL_ but then the pagename still is the linkurl
and not the linktext. ;)

>> However, even though i understand your (Joachim) reasons, i would ask to
>> keep both, (if dropping one is really an option) for backwards
>> compatibility
> Agreed. It shouldn't be removed, only deprecated. (If removal is indeed 
> intended.)
> An alternative would be writing a script that goes through existing 
> wikipages and corrects the syntax - that's simpler than one might think, 
> the original markup table as it is constructed within PmWiki can be 
> adapted to that purpose (could be done as an ?action=update recipe that 
> modified the table entries so that all markup except "|" would be passed 
> through unchanged).
>  > and for liberty of choice for the users.
> Liberty of choice isn't a virtue in this case.

Liberty always is a virtue :) But i agree.... if it is to be removed,
people will have to use what's there.

>> As for your comment on German keyboards below:
>> for me, the | ("pipe") character is a very common one (using Unix,
>> Linux, Mac OS X), and on the Unix (Sun) Keyboard, it is "AltGr" (which
>> is right from the spacebar) and the "<,>" key (left from the y), same
>> seems to be true for all the Windows Notbooks here is the office, and on
>> the iBook it is "alt" left from the spacebar and the _normal_ "7" key.
>> So actually the | is not better or worse than @ for example.
> Sure. That's why I listed @ in the "hate character" set, too :-)

Granted. My bad.

>  > What type of keyboard do you use?
> Actually I'm using the same.
> Some of my misgivings with | are that it's connected to AltGr, which is 
> generally a mess on a German keyboard.
> For the curious, it remaps the keyboard like this:
>   < -> |
>   q -> @
>   e -> €
>   2 -> ²
>   3 -> ³
>   7 -> {
>   8 -> [
>   9 -> ]
>   0 -> }
>   ß -> \
>   + -> ~
>   m -> µ
> The bad thing about AltGr isn't the remapping per se, it's the way the 
> mapping is invoked: on the right side, we press AltGr, meaning we don't 
> have a right Alt key and can't easily do Alt-Q (or Alt-anything where 
> that "anything" is on the left side of the keyboard); alternatively, we 
> can press LeftCtrl-LeftAlt to get the same effect as AltGr. (Now we have 
> two entirely different ways to invoke the alternate character layer of 
> the keyboard, depending on whether the key is to the left or to the 
> right. Whoever invented that standard deserves a publish flogging.)

I agree, but as LCtrl-LAlt-< doesn't do anything on my computers, i
never noticed.

> It's also a pain to type "|"; I'm not sure exactly why, but it has 
> something to do with having to alternate between different shift keys 
> (RightShift, then RightAlt, then RightShift again) - the keypress count 
> doesn't seem too bad (six presses).
> What's *really* a pain is [@...@]. That translates to:
>    LeftCtrl-LeftAlt down
>    8
>    LeftCtrl-LeftAlt up
>    RightAlt down
>    q
>    RightAlt up
>    ...
>    RightAlt down
>    q
>    RightAlt up
>    LeftCtrl-LeftAlt down
>    8
>    LeftCtrl-LeftAlt up

Hmm... ok, i see. Still...
-> is 4 presses (-,shift down, <, shift up)
| is only 3 (AltGr down , <, AltGr up)
or on Mac (alt down, 6, alt up)

Let's decide on "different preferences". ;) Ok?

> I find it so distracting that I try to use copy&paste [@ and @] wherever 
> I can. (Copy&paste works better with @@, which I try to avoid, too. 
> Unfortunately, @@ and [@...@] are often needed for the kind of texts I 
> usually write, so...)
> Well, keyboard issues are an old itch of mine, something I've been 
> moaning about for more than a decade now. I don't think the problem will 
> go away in my lifetime, so I have largely given up on the issue. (Most 
> people don't even blind-type, so I have to face the fact that I'm a 
> minority with it.)
> Regards,
> Jo


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