[pmwiki-users] Blogging support in PMWiki

The Editor editor at fast.st
Fri Dec 8 10:05:20 CST 2006


On 12/8/06, Kathryn Andersen <kat_lists at katspace.homelinux.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 08, 2006 at 12:47:09PM +0200, Athan wrote:
> > "The Editor" <editor at fast.st> wrote in message
> > news:fec7cf150612080152r55982aa1waad2a5808dc2e3ed at mail.gmail.com...
> > > Hate to pitch in here on this topic, but with the various capabilities
> > > now available in zap is another blogging module really necessary?
> >
> > I admit that zap is a great plugin, however I think it is overkill for my
> > needs. I do prefer something simpler and built into pmwiki core.
>
> Seconded.
>
> I am NOT installing ZAP.  ZAP is beta software.  ZAP is not part of the
> core.

That's fine.  I have no burden to see anyone use ZAP.  I know it works
for me, and I've tried to make it available to others because so many
here have been so helpful to me along the way.  It's just a small
return to a very giving community.

Do you not install any non-core recipes?

> It seems like every time someone asks a question nowadays, The Editor
> jumps in saying "ZAP will solve that!"  ZAP isn't even properly
> *documented*.  ZAP may be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but if
> there isn't enough documentation, it's like trying to cut bread without
> a knife.  No software is complete until it is documented; documentation
> isn't an afterthought.  And until ZAP is suitable for general use, it
> isn't fair to keep on telling people to use it, let alone saying that
> other plugins aren't necessary.

Maybe I should be less helpful?  The fact is, ZAP does work, and works
well. And whenever bugs are spotted, they get fixed quickly.

As for documentation, can you point to any recipe that has half the
documentation ZAP does?  I have probably 20 pages of documentation
(yes, I still have more to go but they are coming...) and probably 50
live code samples with source.  The snippets are tagged and
categorized by features so you can find what you want without too much
trouble.  And every feature (and snippet) has user comments enabled.
Oh, and there is a FAQ section I monitor constantly (and a live chat
room I don't monitor :).  I wouldn't say ZAP is without documentation
or support.

I think your charge that ZAP isn't suitable for general use is a
little biased seeing you haven't even installed the software, or
probably even looked at the documentation that is up.  Just because a
few features haven't been fully documented yet is hardly proof it's
only beta.  Not even everything in PmWiki is documented.  But we're
getting there.  That's the point of open source, isn't it?

And as for being difficult to use--it's really not.  It jdoes takes a
little bit different way of thinking about forms.  ZAP is a
philosophical shift in programming more than anything--and most
programmers just need a bit of acclimation to how it works
conceptually.  Once they get it, ZAP can do about anything.  And
easily.

I don't say this to persuade you--but because others might have read
your remarks and been discouraged from trying ZAP, thereby missing out
on something helpful.  Your comments needed a bit of balance.

> I am waiting for the promised *core* functionality to arrive.  The stuff
> PM is presumably still working on.

Pm is a true genius, and no one questions whatever he does will be
right for PmWiki.  However, from what I have read of his blogging
plans, ZAP has one HUGE advantage.  It fully separates form from
content allowing you to do things with comments/blogs, etc, that are
simply impossible in setting up comments as simply embedded/included
wiki pages.  Plus, when you throw in ZAP's extended capabilities, the
flexibility of ZAP's blogging will really shine.  Want to email your
blogs? even use a newsletter?  Want to limit readership, or even
charge for content? Want to have a shoutbox tied to specific blog
posts, or even a chatroom? It's just a matter of rescripting the form.

There's nothing wrong with waiting for something from Pm, but for
those adventurous few who want to explore something new and powerful,
(yes--a bit different), ZAP is an open project to any who want to see
PmWiki stay on the cutting edge.  (ie: help welcome)

Cheers,
Caveman




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