[pmwiki-users] Why all this zapping?

[The Editor]

On 4/30/07, Ben Wilson <dausha at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/30/07, The Editor <editor at fast.st> wrote:
> [...]
> >
> > Actually Kathryn, that is not completely fair.  : ).  First, there
> > were several reasons--the biggest is suggested in the link I mentioned
> > above at zapsite.  Second, I have actually had as much or more
> > positive feedback on the name change than negative, with several
> > encouraging me NOT to change it back. Actually my associate is
> > encouraging me to rename Hg to AcmeHg and MarkupExpressionsExtensions
> > to AcmeExtensions, etc., and I must admit I find the idea kind of
> > unifying.  : )
> [...]
> >
> > Well, my associate has taken over maintenance of Hg, as noted on the
> > page.  And as it's only had one bug fix in recent memory (that others
> > discovered, solved, and fixed) it's not a lot of work anyway.
>
> In the interest of full disclosure, I looked at your 'associate,' Wile
> E. Coyote. This is the fellow who you say encourages keeping the Acme
> moniker, and who you say has taken over Hg maintenance. However, his
> profile redirects to PmWiki:Profiles.Caveman. Caveman is your handle,
> unless my email archive is totally mistaken.

Clever detective work, my friend!  : )

> I would like to discourage your continued use of references to a
> certain popular cartoon series. Assume you become successful with your
> wiki clone, you will undoubtedly incur the wrath of the holder of the
> trademarked names and copyrights of the images you display.

No worries... ZAPwiki will not include any reference to anything
trademarked.  It's also not a clone--as the entire codebase is
redesigned from the ground up.  There are some similar concepts but
codewise it is virtually all new.

Also, I am not too concerned about its success. I'm not even sure if
I'll end up using it on my site (I'm leaning toward PmWiki).  I just
kept coming up against obstacles and complexities in PmWiki in regards
to various cutting edge ZAP functionalities. ZAP works in PmWiki, and
PmWiki is a great tool--but both could be integrated in ways that
would make a lot of things cleaner and simpler.

Also, there are several innovative features already in ZAPwiki that
cannot be readily reproduced in PmWiki apart from a slew of add on
recipes.  Some simply cannot be done in PmWiki as is. But that's
another topic.

> As for "unifying" by naming a set of recipes maintained by you, I
> would also discourage that. I presently maintain several recipes, but
> you wouldn't tell by the recipe names. This sounds more like you're
> carving out a fief than contributing to the growth and prosperity of
> the PmWiki Community. Even if you are not, the impression is conveyed.
> What happens if you reach a point, as Hans recently has, of where
> you're not able to fully support your recipes and decide the community
> is better served by allowing others to carry the load a while? This
> community has flourished due to selfless, cooperative support.

Perhaps you are right. On the other hand, some might see Acme as a
useful warning indicator:  a flashing red light--steer away from this
code! beta! ameteur!  If so, it might help to minimize the level of
support needed to maintain the recipes. : )

Of course, there's no question that the success of the PmWiki
community is its member's selfless, cooperative support of one
another. FWIW, my contributions are offered along these lines.

> ZAP sounds like a fork of PmWiki, judging from the approach taken by
> the site. While GPL allows for code forks, it's generally done when
> there is dissent in the developer community, or when the owner of the
> code fails to support the community. Pm has put years of work into
> making PmWiki the flexible, powerful tool it is; and he proves his
> support to his user base by his daily involvement in the list.

The reason for ZAPwiki is not dissent on my part, and certainly not a
lack of support on Pm's part.  He has my fullest gratitude and
respect. And while not so much a fork as a brand new wiki, the reason
for it's existense is simply I often find PmWiki too complex for most
simple tasks and it's codebase too dense for me to understand.

ZAP was created for the purpose of giving non-programmers easy access
to powerful commands in PmWiki. ZAPwiki is just an extension of that
goal--providing non-programmers even easier and simpler access to
those same capabilities.  All the professionals here at PmWiki I'm
sure will continue to use it for it's robustness, security, and
flexibility. I want to take a stab at developing something
easier--just to see if I can do it.

> I have to say I'm with Kathryn on this issue. Pmwiki thrives on an
> open, cooperative environment. I recently applauded Pm for having
> fostered an open-source community that embodies those characteristics
> of a good community. Forking and fiefing are contra-productive in this
> environment.

Pm has indeed done a wonderful job!  I certainly have no intention of
forking or fiefing. I have only referred to ZAPwiki in response to
others--and prefer to discuss it offlist. And Acme is hardly a
fief--just a label indicating the recipes are connected in some way.

Thanks for the input Ben...  I've enjoyed learning about the ethics of
open source communities almost as much as the coding. A curious but
interesting environment.

Cheers,
Dan