Tom Backer Johnsen
backer at psych.uib.no
Mon Sep 11 12:55:44 CDT 2006
John Rankin wrote:
> On Saturday, 9 September 2006 11:37 PM, christian.ridderstrom at gmail.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 8 Sep 2006, John Rankin wrote:
>>> - when viewing the page in html:
>>> - the reference displays in an appropriate style, as a link
>>> - clicking the link displays a correctly formatted citation
>> What do you mean by "... displays a correctly formatted citation"?
>> I would expect that clicking the link would "move" me to the corresponding
>> entry in the bibliography?
> I meant:
> - (:cite unique-ref-id:) generates a link to the reference at unique-ref-id
> - it displays as (using anchor markup for illustration)
> [[#unique-ref-id | Hawking et al. (2005)]]
> *not* [[#unique-ref-id | unique-ref-id]]
> in other words, it displays in the body a suitable piece of text,
> retrieved from the actual reference
> - clicking the link displays the full reference, in the author's chosen
> I may have the terminology wrong here. I tend to refer to 'cite' in
> the body of the text and 'reference' in the bibliography. So I meant
> 'a correctly formatted citation' to refer to how the unique-ref-id is
> rendered in the body of the page and 'suitably formatted reference'
> to refer to how the details are presented in the bibliography.
> Please correct me if that is not the right usage.
I think that is the correct usage, at least according to the Endnote
manual which defines a citation as: "bibliographic information in the
body of a paper that refers the reader to a complete reference in the
>> Oh... that reminds me. We need to distinguish between the wiki pages that
>> define the bibliography database, and the location where the bibliography
>> is actually shown. So something is needed to specify the default
>> bibliography (and not just the default bibliography databases).
>> You can of course have many bibliographies in a wiki... I'd probably very
>> often use one in the end of a page.
> Yes and in wikipublisher, I envisage that when publishing an article,
> you want the bibliography to appear at the end of the article and when
> publishing a book,, you want it to appear in the back matter.
> In general terms, the $XMLFooterFmt (= & $HTMLFooterFmt) variable can
> be used, I think to control bibliography placement, by translating the
> (:bibliography:) markup to generate the appropriate entry.
> Interestingly, I think this will be easier to do in the published PDF
> than in the html page.
>> It's interesting that the concept of a bibliography gets more challenging
>> in a wiki setting. For instance, we will probably want a bibliography to
>> list citations occuring in more than just the current wiki page. This
>> means that the directive that produces the bibliography also needs to know
>> which pages to produce the bibliography for.
>> I'm guessing (:pagelist:) will be our friend here...
> In publishing a pdf, LaTeX takes care of this, I believe, but you are
> right there is an issue in HTML. I had envisaged that the markup rule
> that handles (:cite:) would build the bibliography in a php static
> array, then the markup rule that handles (:bibliography:) would sort
> the static array into the specified order and insert it into the
> $XMLFooter. Since (:cite:) has to read the bib page to retrieve the
> text to use in the link, it may as well grab the entire reference.
> I believe there is another slight wrinkle: sometime you want to include
> an item in the bibliography without explicitly referring to it in the
> body. We may need a (:nocite unique-ref-is:) which says 'include this
> in the bibliography but don't display anything'.
Really? I've never encountered such a thing, or at least I do not
>> Anyway, as I've just realized this, there might be other conceptual issues
>> that have been missed. Maybe it'd be a good idea to write something down
>> about the overall desired structure. Any implementation doesn't have to
>> support all the bells and whistles initially of course.
To begin, with I would be happy with:
- One single BibTex file for the site, named in say config.php
- A simple citation command, like (:cite unique-ref-id) as mentioned
above which would either be rendered in number format, e.g. 
alternatively (controlled as an option) as (Authorlist PubYear), e.g.
- A list of the cited references at the end of the page
A "central" bibliography is not necessary to begin with, and if I
manage to get the whole thing sewn together in Lyx, it would be taken
care of there anyhow (or rather I hope so, I am having problems with
the APA style in my freshly downloaded Lyx at the moment).
I would regard the online management of a Bibtex data base as having
lower priority. Nice to have, but not vital.
> I'd like to propose a constraint that the implementation must be
> markup-agnostic, so that I can use it in wikipublisher. This of
> course is consistent with PmWiki's standard approach. Then in
> future, you will be able to export an entire page collection in
> Lyx format and I will be able to turn the collection into a pdf
> with a single click.
That would be very nice. Yes, thank you! Who is going to do the
programming :-) ?
| Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology |
| University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY |
| Tel : +47-5558-9185 Fax : +47-5558-9879 |
| Email : backer at psych.uib.no URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ |
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