[pmwiki-users] Proposed Default Stylesheet (pmwiki.css)

[Joachim Durchholz]

Patrick R. Michaud schrieb:
> On Sun, Feb 19, 2006 at 08:25:04PM +0100, Joachim Durchholz wrote:
> 
>>Patrick R. Michaud schrieb:
>>
>>>    '''Colour Schemes'''
>>>    * Blue colours
>>>    * Sky colours
>>>    * Sky-Blue colours
>>>    * Sand colours
>>>
>>>With the <p> elements having a full margin-bottom component, that 
>>>would mean that the list would end up with vertical whitespace between
>>>"Colour schemes" and the first item in the list,  yes?  How could
>>>we deal with that?
>>
>>[...]
>>I see to reasonable decisions at this time:
>>1) Punt on the issue, and always have that empty space between 
>>enumeration and normal text. That's how HTML was designed after all.
> 
> By this reasoning, we should also punt on trying to make the
> visual space after headings smaller than paragraph spacing, because
> if a heading is followed by a list or such element it would
> also override the heading setting.

Usually I use the same heading-to-paragraph and paragraph-to-paragraph 
spacing - well, sometimes I may make the heading-to-paragraph spacing 
slightly more.
But less? *Never*! The conceptual heading-to-paragraphs distance is 
larger than the paragraph-to-paragraph distance IMO.
(Actually I prefer a quite small paragraph-to-paragraph distance, 0.3 of 
line height or similar. Keeping a full line height is far too obtrusive 
IMHO.)

>>2) Detect the situation, and insert a paragraph with a 0.1 pixel height 
>>between adjacent <ul>s (and anything else that's paragraph-like in HTML 
>>but isn't in PmWiki). It's an ugly hack IMNSHO.
> 
> Inserting a paragraph between adjacent elements is essentially
> what PmWiki is currently doing with <p class='vspace'></p>,
> except PmWiki uses such paragraphs to explicitly indicate the 
> presence of vertical space instead of the absence of it.  The
> CSS and resulting output is simply much cleaner that way.

Those <p class='vspace'> tags are nearly ubiquitous, and are a bit of an 
obstacle to reading the text. I'd prefer them absent.

Occasionally interspersing an empty paragraph between adjacent 
enumerations (and other, similar sections) would be far less obtrusive.

It's still an ugly hack, of course :-)

<p class='vspace'> is an ugly hack, too.
Mostly because I don't know when that paragraph will be inserted, so I 
don't know what kinds of wiki idioms that I use will generate it and 
what won't.
It also makes it more difficult to apply CSS styles. If I don't know 
when exactly that paragraph is inserted and when not, I can't do serious 
CSS work, since I don't know what cases to test.
I'm not too happy with the ability to override $HTMLVspace. It may make 
some skins unusable, and it will make diagnosing problems more difficult.
Oh, and it's inserting HTML for visual effect, and that's "eek!" by the 
CSS mantra. Luckily I'm just moderately fanatic here... Jokes aside: I'd 
prefer it CSS style, but I can live with the occasional deviation.

Regards,
jo