semantics vs. styles was Re: [pmwiki-users] Re: floating box on the right

Radu radu at monicsoft.net
Fri Mar 25 02:41:38 CST 2005


At 06:19 AM 3/24/2005, chr at home.se wrote:
>On Wed, 23 Mar 2005, Patrick R. Michaud wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 02:14:09PM +1200, John Rankin wrote:
> > > Well if it were up to me, whenever pmwiki gains a new semantic
> > > style, such as %stickynote%, we'd define an alternate semantic
> > > markup, like {=sticky note=}.
> >
> > Interesting, because this seems to be exactly the opposite of
> > what Christian asks for (every time we define a new semantic markup,
> > we also have a text-based form of it).   :-)
>
>On a more serious note, I guess I simply prefer *verbose* semantic markup
>as compared to e.g. {=..=}.

OK, and now we've thoroughly mixed verbosity vs. wiki-tersesess with the 
semantic vs. stylistic divide :)

semantic use:
* !!! (terse) and
* <h3> (verbose)

stylistic use:
* %note% defined in a css statement somewhere above (terse) and
* %bgcolor=yellow% (verbose)

These are not the best examples, since they refer to different elements.

BTW, I agree with jr's concern about having a semantic equivalent to pure 
styling markup, on anything that's definable functionally (e.g. stickies, 
comments, misc. widgets). And as pm noted, I doubt that is a problem 
currently for pmwiki.

For Christian's sake, here's my take on semantics. Not a lecture, not word 
from on high, just an opinion ;). Semantics is not as much about 'meaning'. 
Real-life experience in communicating suggests that 'meaning' is in the eye 
of the beholder anyway, no matter what some philosophers say about stuff 
like Kantian kinds or Platonic forms or universal concept lattices :). 
Semantic content is more appropriately described as 'interpretation'. 
Styles (%bgcolor=yellow%golly%%) give specific instructions about the look 
of the thing, while semantics (%highlight%golly%%) describes the text for a 
given interpreter, which is then free to make the highlight yellow or blue, 
bg or text, bold or not, depending on context (display format (html, pdf), 
skin, other markup enclosing this one, etc), one by one or in combinations 
(as in the 'cascading' element of CSS).

Of course, one can't totally separate semantics from style, since authors 
have expectations which mix both aspects, expectations built from a 
lifetime of previous experience with books and existing digital media.

If this makes sense and people agree with me, I could elaborate on this 
tidbit and put it in WikiArchitecture or somewhere.

Of course, I may be totally out to lunch...


Cheers,
Radu
(www.monicsoft.net) 




More information about the pmwiki-users mailing list