[pmwiki-users] Re: pmwiki-users Digest, Vol 2, Issue 41

John W Morris johnwmorris at peak.org
Fri Aug 5 22:33:27 CDT 2005


This may irritate some but I've been around the block and know whereof I speak. So advance apologies to those offended.  It is not intentional
  Message: 10
  Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 23:48:00 +0200
  From: chr at home.se
  Subject: [pmwiki-users] Re: cobblers children
  To: pmwiki-users at pmichaud.com
  Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0508052343010.13966-100000 at ludde.md.kth.se>
  Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1

  On Fri, 5 Aug 2005, John W Morris wrote:

  > I really hate having to scroll down through a very long list to find the
  > message I want to read.  The previous mode of attachments at least let
  > me select the message I wanted to read and get to it directly.

  Um.. are you talking about the mailing list here?

Um.. yes,  I could have been more explicit, my fault. Mea Culpa

> Given:  most all of us "readers" use html in our email views

(on a sidenote, I don't use the HTML in my email view...)

Given: numerous internet stats on who is using what email readers and browsers... most of us are using html, with pictures, background and such.  Most any unix terminal I know of is running some version of x-windows with some window manager.   (graphics rule, characters drool <G>)

> so we can handle internal links, therefore, can something better be done
> with this list?  It is not the 'wiki' itself so is not deserving of
> massive attention and labor... but... it is one of the tools that help
> shape and often repair that 'wiki' and lead us to understanding.

Hang on... are you talking about a mail digest, i.e. when you get 
everyting from one day in a single message? And you'd like links for this 

Nope... happy to get info in any form. Do recognize when the form can be more friendly though.

> Proposed solutions:
>   a.. at the least... go back to attachments.
>   b.. at the best... put the list on the wiki (great for archive and search functions) and send notifications via email with hot links to discussion pages.   That way one discussion can be carried on one page and the whole history of the discussion is in one place for review and later archive.

There is a phrase that goes "run what you brung".  Too often ignored.   Using Emacs or VI and a character based terminal or program for email and writing sophisticated software seems sort of a miss-match.  IMHO.
I've read Pm's comments on focusing on the user.   The user is running a balls to the wall hot machine with graphics and sound that will blow windows out.   They are used to and expect software that work they way they think it should and want it intuitive.  They DO NOT READ manuals.
So... why are we not using the tool we are trying to make even better than it is?   If it is good, use it.... if it is lacking, fix it and then use it.

Have you tried reading the list through gmane? That'll give you links and 
thread views and whatnot. See here for instance


Tried it.  Of course I had no idea it was there.  I saw discussions on "gmane" which seemed cryptic and not apparently useful.   I tried it and noted however that the search couldn't find the word "cobbler" in the message I was reading on the screen.  So that sort of turned me off to it's use. In fact no search I did generated any result but repainted the search window.  

IMHO - this is a pretty much a cryptic character based application that few real world  users will spend much time with. First - it's not graphic and pretty... sorry, reality bites sometimes. Selection windows are not labeled.   ie. two windows, one labeled 1 to some large number... and it does what?
Next window had what appear to be actions.  I selected "followup" and other than the word appearing in the window, nothing happened.   Someone probably knows what these items are for but do you seriously think most people will poke around long to try and discover what they do and are for?

Now that I've irritated the pmwiki world, I will again observe silence.

Thank you for your patience and forbearance,

John Morris
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