[Pmwiki-users] Why heirarchy?

Fred Chittenden drfredc
Wed Oct 20 11:44:46 CDT 2004


> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 04:56:14PM -0700, Fred Chittenden wrote:
> > > Per the example, given that someone is viewing Team A, they'd be
> > > at a page like SoccerBoysU7TeamA.HomePage, and links to the other
> > > pages would then be [[Roster]], [[Practice schedule]], [[Team News]],
> > > etc., exactly as you've described. 
>
> > However, I can't see how such a template might would work with long names
> > unless one somehow used concatenated variables. Possible example below. 
> > -----------------------------
> > Welcome to the <team> web page.
> > 
> > concat(soccer+<sex>+<age>+<team>+Roster)
> > concat(soccer+<sex>+<age>+<team>+Schedule)
> > concat(soccer+<sex>+<age>+<team>+News)
> > -----------------------
> > To most, creating pages with so much code would look a lot like programming
> > to the average bubba - hence be poorly utilized. 
>
> No no no no. :-) The page names remain short, only the group names
> get long. Thus, a team's web page would be SoccerBoysU7TeamA.HomePage,
> and the links (even with long group names) would still look like:<
> --------------
> Welcome to the <team> web page.
>
> [[Roster]]
> [[Schedule]]
> [[News]]
> --------------
>

Without nestable hierarchy, it seems you're essentially relying upon the webmaster to manually create long name websites for 20 odd rec soccer leagues. It's not a lot of work, but much more than would seem to be required if one had nestable hierarchy. A simple league template with nestable hierarchy would seem to be quite easy:
--------------------
Rec Soccer Boys <Age>

[[LeagueSchedule]]
[[LeagueStandings]]

Teams -- 

[[TeamA]]
[[TeamB]]
[[TeamC]]
....

(To create a team web site click on edit and enter your team name in one of the available team sites noted above. 
Save the edit and open your team's web site)
----------------------

Wouldn't I end up with RecSoccerBoysU7.TeamA. Then what happens when in TeamA's page and use the template noted above to create the Roster? Would one end up with RecSoccerBoysU7.TeamA.Roster, or RecSoccerBoysU7TeamA.Roster? 

It seems confusing to have long names without nested group seperators, while having a nestable hierarchy with shorter names seperated by a '.' seems reasonably easy to understand and handle, plus readily expandable to more complex applications which time and experience will soon expose. 

One thing I foresee as a problem is what happens next year when all of the U7s become U8s? It seems like it would be a major editing hassle to change all the RecSoccerBoysU7 to RecSoccerBoysU8 at the next year with long names.  Most of the teams, coaches, and players move along each year with only modest changes. 

It seems (with nested hierarchy) some (future) 'file management utility' might be able to globably change the RecSoccer.Boys.U7 league file name to ...U8. All of the U7.<file> would migrate to ...U8.<file>.  It would seem most every link would still work, except perhaps for the 'backlinks' to ...U7.Standings. Having a seperate RecSoccer.Boys.Standings page to link to might be a reasonable workaround. 

> Indeed, the leading "Soccer" doesn't seem to add much utility,

Actually, there's Rec Soccer, Select Soccer and more, all part of the same youth soccer club. 

The Club's Select Soccer program is another 600 youth players with 40 odd teams who play year round with paid coaching. Many have their own web site, but not all. The wiki could easily provide a link to a team's own web site, to be viewed in a "portal" page at the club's site.  

There's also two youth soccer events with about 250 teams each that play 4 to 5 games each over one 3 to 4 day weekend.  Event needs are a bit different and are currently handled by an Excel spreadsheet with staff doing the creation and input. However, events require a lot of work to be done on one machine which a wiki might be able to spread around to reduce staff event burnout. 

Then there's the Adult Soccer leagues run by the same youth soccer club (another 300 players and 20 teams), plus at least one 200 team adult weekend tournament. 

Sure wiki.farms might work. But isn't that just another way of setting up a nested hierarchy of some sort? 

Fred Chittenden
drfredc at earthlink.net
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